Below is a transcript of an interview between Matt Jones and John Feinstein on January 29, 2015. Jones (with Kentucky Sports Radio) invited Feinstein on his show to discuss various topics.

The initial discussion revolved around the rather mundane discussion of why Feinstein decided to vote the University of Virginia #1 in the Associated Pres poll (the only voter in the poll to do so) rather than the University of Kentucky. But later the discussion shifted to more substantial discussion of the possibility of Kentucky potentially playing the University of Texas El-Paso in Maryland to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1966 National Championship game. Later the discussion turned briefly (until Feinstein changed the subject) to Feinstein's negative opinion on former UK coach Adolph Rupp with respect to racial relations, even though Feinstein admits he has never looked into the issue seriously.

This discussion was based on a previous email that Feinstein had sent to Rick Bozich in which Feinstein wrote: "Far more relevant (than the AP vote) is Kentucky's refusal to play UTEP on the 50th anniversary of the most important college game ever played. Kentucky people always yammer about how Rupp was unfairly cast as a racist, villain. Fine, let's play the game and let the story be told from BOTH sides. THAT matters, not my stupid vote in the AP poll..."

This exchange is in many ways a continuation of an impromptu interview which was done months earlier (August 6, 2014) in Louisville. At the end of the interview, Jones references my webpage which addresses Feinstein's longtime hatred of Kentucky basketball, which can be found at the link below:

Top 10 Detractors List (of the Ancient World)

My responses to some of the comments made in this interview are available within the above page accessed directly via this link. You can listen to the Kentucky Sports Radio interview below:

Note the interview itself begins around the 21:40 mark and ends around 38:50. Below is a transcript of the exchange:

Transcript

(21:40) Matt Jones: ... Now joined on the line with John Feinstein. John do you remember you were with us at Valhalla, we had a good time, I appreciate you taking the time joining us today. John Feinstein: My pleasure Matt, how are you? Matt Jones: I'm doing great. So the obvious question we've got to start with, is you, the Coaches poll, and the I guess it's still called the AP poll, the writers poll. All across the country every single person has voted Kentucky #1 except you. You voted Virginia, so give us the short case why you think Virginia should be ranked higher than Kentucky ? John Feinstein: Well right now, based on the, and I had Kentucky #1 for most of the season early on Matt, and then when they had that week where they were fortunate to win twice, while Virginia was dominating some opponents, I decided, based on what I had seen that AT THAT MOMENT, Virginia was better than Kentucky. That if they played ten times, Virginia would win five maybe six. Maybe Kentucky would win maybe six. It was pretty close to a toss-up, but you know, I decided to vote Virginia #1. I like to give teams recognition, that might not otherwise get it. I've used my 25th place vote, for 20 years now, for a team that probably isn't the 25th best team in the country, but is from a smaller conference, and I feel deserves maybe a little tiny bit of recognition, whatever recognition comes from me voting them 25th, which isn't much, but it's something. So I voted Virginia #1 that week. There was another voter from Indianapolis who did the same thing. Matt Jones: Yeah we had him on last week, John, and he flipped back. Probably because of his interview, I'm sure, but or maybe because Virginia almost lost at Virginia Tech. John Feinstein: Correct. Matt Jones: I can respect that. So now once Virginia struggled at Virginia Tech, Kentucky goes to South Carolina, handles it. Why not flip back? John Feinstein: Well I just felt that everybody's entitled to a bad game. Matt Jones: Except Kentucky. Right John ? Except Kentucky. John Feinstein: No no no. First of all, first of all there were two of them back to back for Kentucky. Second of all, I really believe this Matt, that if Virginia and Kentucky played ten times, they'd split. I don't think people understand how good Virginia is. Kentucky's gotten a lot of attention, for all the reasons Kentucky gets attention because they're, you know, they're so big and they're so deep. John has done such an amazing job with the one-and-dones, that everybody, you know there's the tendency to pile on. Last year everybody was piling on the three freshmen, Randle and Parker and the kid at Kansas. They were the three greatest freshmen in history. Well the only one whose team did anything in the NCAA tournament was Randle, who went to the championship game after they were an an eighth seed. I tend to be the contrarian, the let's not jump on the bandwagon and start calling something the greatest before they ... Matt Jones: Listen I'm with you on all that. John Feinstein: OK (Interrupting each other) Matt Jones: If all you had said, John . . . hang on John . . . (Interrupting each other) Matt Jones: We only have a few minutes with you, John . . . John Feinstein: Well my point is, I think that Virginia is very good. Do I think Virginia is going to win the national championship? I have no idea. And my vote isn't based on whether I think they'll win the national championship. My vote is based on body of work for the season and the way you're playing most recently. By that . . . if I had voted Kentucky #1 this week, I wouldn't have had any problem with that vote. I could have easily voted Kentucky this week. I decided to stick with Virginia. Matt Jones: Let's talk body of work. Ok, first of all you did say something that I haven't really heard anyone say. You think if UK and Virginia play 10 times, you think Virginia wins five. Really ? John Feinstein: Yeah I do. I do. I think Virginia ... Matt Jones: How ? How would they deal with Kentucky's size ? John Feinstein: Well, the same way that Mississippi and Texas A&M dealt with their size. Matt Jones: Which is to shoot out of their minds. I mean those, Ole Miss shot . .. John Feinstein: ... have you seen them play much ? Matt Jones: Yes! John, you act like you're the only person that watches college basketball. I've seen Virginia play many times. . . (Interrupting each other) John Feinstein: No, Matt. Matt. You're not letting me finish any sentence here. You asked me to come on the show, have the courtesy to let me finish a thought. OK ? And then I'll let you finish your thought. I promise. My point is, I think that the best basketball player on the court if those two teams play might be Justin Anderson. I think Tony Bennett coaches in a different way than coaches are used to seeing it's very hard for anyone to play against. If you look back at their record since last January, it's something ridiculous like 41-3. And Kentucky's been great since the NCAA tournament last year, although they turned over a lot of players, Virginia did not. They lost two seniors, one of them was a very good player, another one was an OK player. Their kids have gotten better. If they play one and out, I don't know who's going to win, Matt. And the other question, the thing that I've raised with a lot of people is what's the big deal about me voting, you know the poll's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to give people something to talk about. And I'm fine with you saying to me: 'John I disagree with you, I think Kentucky is better than Virginia.' I have no problem with that. I know I'm in the minority. I've spent my life in the minority, I have no problem with that. But the ANGER, that I'm getting from people in Kentucky, that I don't understand. Because I don't think my vote's that important. Matt Jones: Well I agree with you. You're not getting anger from me. You say it's something to talk about. I host a talk show which is why you're on. Now you believe Justin Anderson, who by the way is a very very good player, is better than Willie Cauley Stein ? John Feinstein: I think in terms of . . . I think you can make the case, and in terms of an all-around court game he's better. And ... Matt Jones: All around court ? ... Willie, John Willie's the best defensive player in the country, don't you think? John Feinstein: And Justin Anderson's one of the best offensive players in the country and like everybody else on his team, a very good defensive player. Matt Jones: All right, so you believe Virginia and Kentucky split five-five. John Feinstein: Yeah I do. Matt Jones: Well let's look at resume. You said let's look at resume. Kentucky's three best wins . . . I agree with Jay Bilas, everybody beats bad teams so my question is who are the best teams you beat ? Virginia's three best wins: Notre Dame, VCU, and Maryland. Kentucky's three best wins ... John Feinstein: All on the road by the way. Matt Jones: Kentucky's three best wins, probably Louisville on the road, Kansas by 30 on a neutral court, and by the way they've only lost a couple of times since then, and North Carolina pretty handily at Rupp. John Feinstein: Right Matt Jones: Would you not agree Kentucky's three best wins probably better than Virginia's three best wins? John Feinstein: Not sure I would. The Kansas win was very, the Kansas win was overwhelming. I mean I was like everybody else. I sat and watched that game and was like 'Oh my god, these guys really are this good'. And they played well and have played well ever since. And Louisville, to me, actually was the most impressive because it's at Louisville and its against a team that desperately wants to beat you. But I can, and and the North Carolina win, ahhhh. Carolina back then in particular wasn't playing especially well, they're playing better and the game was at Rupp. Virginia, the three wins that you mentioned for Virginia, the least impressive of those is Maryland because Maryland's best player didn't play that night, Dez Wells. Going to Notre Dame and win this year is impressive. And I can TELL you for a fact that beating VCU at VCU is almost impossible, for anybody. Matt Jones: Why is that a fact ? Just because it's your opinion ? John Feinstein: Because I've been in the arena a lot. Matt Jones: And I have too John. I've been there three times for games. John Feinstein: OK, well, OK when was the last time. . . Matt Jones: It's a great win, it's a great win, John. But here's what I think happens with Kentucky. John Feinstein: ....which would you rather win at VCU or ... (Interrupting each other) Matt Jones: You said you'd let me finish if I let you finish. Did you not say that? John Feinstein: Go ahead. Matt Jones: I think what happens with Kentucky is, they hold, in part because of the talent, media holds Kentucky to a standard they don't hold to anybody else. So Kentucky has a bad game. ... John Feinstein: .....everybody else voted them #1 ? Matt Jones: Why am I even trying? Kentucky plays a game that is sub-par, and that means that they are not historically good, they are overrated, blah blah blah. Virginia plays a game, I think they went into double overtime against Miami. They played N.C. State really close on their home court. They had the game against Virginia Tech and it just goes to show that they're gritty and they win. Kentucky does it and it goes to show they're overrated. John I think that happens, you're not the only one that does it. I think that happens to Kentucky all the time. Am I wrong? John Feinstein: I think that happens to name programs all the time. Not just to Kentucky ... Matt Jones: Yes I agree. John Feinstein: It happens to Duke. It happens to North Carolina. It happens to Kansas. It used to happen to UCLA. Sure, because they get more publicity in general, because they're under more of a microscope from everybody, both people who are, you know, pro-Kentucky and people who aren't pro-Kentucky. Yeah, of course that happens and people aren't as aware of Virginia, and so they're not going to hold them up to that standard, because, remember before the season started nobody was saying 'Virginia has a chance to go undefeated, Virginia has a chance to be one of the great teams of all-time. So you're right, they're not held up to the same standard. Flip side is, they're you know, I'm the only one in the country right now, as you pointed out, who didn't vote Kentucky #1. So the media's not being THAT hard on them. Matt Jones: All-right, let me give you a separate question. John Feinstein: By the way I didn't vote them 14th, I voted them 2nd. Matt Jones: Well if you voted them anything less than second it would just prove my theory that you hate Kentucky because there are only two teams that are undefeated. John Feinstein: I don't hate Kentucky. Matt Jones: Yes, you do. But let's talk about what you did say to Rick Bozich. Rick Bozich wrote about this, and at the end of it you said, and the question was 'why did you vote Virginia ahead of Kentucky.' Actually you wrote Rick, and then at the end you go 'but the real outrage has nothing to do with my vote, but that Kentucky won't play UTEP for the 50th anniversary of the 'Glory Road' game. First of all, when people say you hate Kentucky. It's because in a thing about voting Kentucky vs. Virginia, you bring up a game 50 years ago. Why is that an outrage? John Feinstein: I didn't use the word outrage. I said ... go back. Matt Jones: Well you used a word like 'outrage'. John Feinstein: I don't understand why this is such a big deal, my vote. And I said what should be a big deal is the fact that UTEP offered Kentucky the chance to play the game again to remember history. You said to me last August, when we talked both on, and I think off the air, that it was unfair that people made Rupp out to be a racist, that the Duke team that lost to Kentucky, and you're 100% right, was all-white too back in 1966. Kentucky happened to be, as it turned out, in the wrong place at the wrong time. So why not play that game again, play it at Maryland. You know it would be great for college basketball and allow the story to be told on both sides? Matt Jones: Because we're the villain John. I mean aren't you just showing up if you're Kentucky. First of all I would not have minded if they played it. Initially it got sort of rumored, I was for it. But I also understand, I'm here in a store full of Kentucky fans, I also understand that in that story, people like you, and it's not just you, believe me. But people have always painted us as the villain. Not just as a participant in a historic game. You've painted us as Bull Connor. And why if we were Bull Connor, do we show up for our national beating again? John Feinstein: Well OK... Matt Jones: I can sit here, .... and I'll be glad to let you finish. I can sit here and explain why I think Rupp's reputation is unfair, and I do think it is somewhat unfair. I don't think he's the gold standard that some Kentucky fans do, but I also think it's somewhat unfair. But it doesn't really matter, because in the national consciousness, he's Bull Connor. So why show up to get beaten by the media again? And then to say do you think the media is going to give John Calipari, who most of the media hate, credit? No. We're showing up to get whipped again. Why would we do that? John Feinstein: Let me ask you a question, why do you think most of the media hates John Calipari? Matt Jones: Oh you don't, John, you don't think ... you think college basketball media likes John Calipari? John Feinstein: Yeah I do. John Calipari is articulate, he's accesible, he's got a sense of humor. I think most of the national media likes John Calipari a lot. I really do. Matt Jones: You think ... come on the main college basketball writers, your Goodman's, your Forde's, your Thamel's. They all hate, John, you know that. John Feinstein: No they don't! Give me one example of somebody who hates John Calipari? Matt Jones: Pat Forde! John Feinstein: OK, I don't know, I can't speak to whether Pat hates him or not. Matt Jones: Jeff Goodman! John Feinstein: I know Dick Weiss has known him and liked him... Matt Jones: OK, Dick Weiss, but you're talking about, I love, I love Dick Weiss, but Dick Weiss is not a current college basketball writer. John Feinstein: Sure he is! Matt Jones: Jeff Goodman hates him. Pete Thamel hates him. John Feinstein: Thaamel. Matt Jones: Thaamel, he also hates him. I've given you three. How many more do you need? John Feinstein: I don't know that that's true or not true. I know that most of the guys I talk to, and you know the TV guys love him because he's always there. Uhh. If he were to go on, what's the main place that people go to, to hear about college basketball? Matt Jones: ESPN John Feinstein: Does ESPN hate John Calipari? Matt Jones: ESPN as a network loves him. ESPN's writers, on their website despise him. John Feinstein: But which is more important, the network or the writers? Matt Jones: Oh, I agree but my question, for you, again. John I want you to understand why Kentucky (Interrupting each other) John Feinstein: (Interrupting) ... John went on ESPN and said, 'Look, here's what happened, here's what I know of Adolph Rupp. I know he tried to recruit Wes Unseld' and on and on, told the Kentucky side of it, you think that would be bad for Kentucky? Matt Jones: I think what would happen is, no one would listen to him, because they'd just say 'that's just Cal' Let me ask you, John, and I'll leave it at this, because we've got to stop. If Kentucky were to play UTEP, next year or whenever would you write an article ... John Feinstein: Should be next year Matt Jones: . . . Would you write an article absolving Rupp, or making a positive Rupp article? Why don't you write that right now? John Feinstein: No what I would do, is if they came here and played is I would try, because I have never delved into this in detail beyond as a reader, I would go talk to people like Billy Reed and Dave Kindred, people who were around... Matt Jones: Billy Reed DESPISES Calipari! John Feinstein: But this has nothing to do with Calipari, we're talking about Rupp. We're talking about Rupp here. Matt Jones: OK John Feinstein: And Dave Kindred I know didn't despise Rupp. He was one of the first people to say to me 'You can't make Rupp into a stick figure. You have to make him a three-dimensional figure'. . . Matt Jones: But don't you think you've done that, John, in your career? Don't you think. . . John Feinstein: No, I don't think I have, not at all. Matt Jones: If I gave you quotes from your book about Kentucky-Duke in '78 in which you called Rupp a racist, would that not be enough? John Feinstein: No, no because I . .. Matt Jones: Well those quotes exist, John. Those quotes exist. John Feinstein: . . .I think a lot of coaches were racist back then. Matt Jones: So was Rupp a racist ? John Feinstein: Rupp got singled out because he was the best at the time.. . Matt Jones: I asked you a question, John. Was Rupp a racist ? You said you haven't said it. . . John Feinstein: Yes . . . Matt Jones: You say yes? John Feinstein: Yes . . .I, I, I . . . Matt Jones: OK well then don't tell me that you haven't said it, you JUST said it. John Feinstein: That's my OPINION, yes but that doesn't mean . . . There are plenty of people who have differing views than mine who I can still write about and try make into more than just a simple figure. Matt Jones: Then go ahead and do that John. . . if you want respect John Feinstein: ....I've written about through the years, I did it . . Matt Jones: John if you want respect from Kentucky fans, don't wait for that game. John Feinstein: (interrupting) Matt Jones: Let me finish John. Do what you talked about with Billy Read, Dave Kindred. Write that article NOW. What's stopping you? John Feinstein: I'll tell you what, I'll make a deal with you. You get Calipari to play that game and I'll start researching these right now. Matt Jones: See why don't you just do ... first of all you're giving me a lot more credit than I have, to get Calipari to do anything. John Feinstein: Well I understand. Matt Jones: Write that article now. If you don't want Kentucky fans to think you hate them. Write that article now. John Feinstein: Matt, there's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do that's going to change the way Kentucky fans . . . Matt Jones: That would do it. Ryan am I wrong? Ryan Lemond: It would help. Matt Jones: That would help. John Feinstein: Let me ask you one question. If, the kid from Indianapolis had been the one voter this week ... Matt Jones: He came on here, last week John. He came on here and he was great. And you were great talking about UK-UVa. I just disagree with you about that. John Feinstein: Well I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing. . . Matt Jones: There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. John Feinstein: .. go and look at some of the things posted on my twitter account. Matt Jones: I'm not in charge of, John I'm not in charge of what people write on your twitter account. John Feinstein: I know you're not but Matt, I'm making a point. You say to me, UK fans, UK fans. Go and look at some of the things on my twitter account ... Matt Jones: And go and look, and John I would say this ... John Feinstein: ... I should think, that it's worth spending the time trying to quote... Matt Jones: John, I'll drop it with this John. Go to Jon Scott's site and look at what you've written about Kentucky in the last twenty years. John Feinstein: Oh I know, is that the one about the biggest Kentucky detractors? Matt Jones: Yes! and he has, he has... John Feinstein: I don't apologize for thinking that there are people, I don't want to say everyone, there are people in Kentucky who make WAY too much out of college basketball. I don't apologize for that at all. Matt Jones: And your alma mater ... your alma mater makes a pretty big deal about it as well. John Feinstein: Not like Kentucky. Matt Jones: Thank you very much John. I appreciate you taking the time to come on. It's always kind of you do so. Thank you sir. John Feinstein: Matt it's always good to talk to you, take care. Matt Jones: There you go. John Feinstein of, of, I don't know where he works now, he used to work for the Washington Post, I'm not sure what he does now. . . (38:50)

Transcribed by - June 14, 2015

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