Below is a transcript of an interview between Matt Jones and John Feinstein at Valhalla Golf Club while they were present for the PGA tournament held in Louisville KY on August 6, 2014. Both Jones (with Kentucky Sports Radio) and Feinstein (with CBS Sports Radio) do radio shows at the same time and found themselves near each other in the media tent.
Jones took the opportunity to talk to Feinstein briefly after the radio shows were over to address some of Feinstein's longstanding criticisms of UK and its fans. You can listen to the Kentucky Sports Radio interview below:
Note that I have provided some comments to a few of the discussions at this link. Below is a transcript of the exchange.
After some initial pleasantries, the real interview started:
Transcript
(00:42) Matt Jones: Let's get right to it. I've always thought, and you tell me if I'm wrong. Do you... You seem to really dislike Kentucky basketball, probably going back to the '78 when you covered that Duke team. Is that fair to say? John Feinstein: No, No I mean. '78 is not fair to say. That there are things about Kentucky basketball through history that I have disapproved of and not liked, that is fair to say. Matt Jones: But do you think, is the history? John Feinstein: I wasn't affected by ... Kentucky was the better team that night Matt Jones: Is the history you don't like, the Rupp history? Is that what you don't like? John Feinstein: No, well, I mean there's some Rupp history in it, there's some Joe B. Hall history in it. Matt Jones: What don't you like about Joe B. Hall? John Feinstein: No, I mean go back to the 1985 Pulitzer Prize-winning pieces in the Lexington Herald-Leader on what went on when Joe B. Hall was the coach and ... Matt Jones: Do you feel the same negativity towards the various little Duke scandals over the years? John Feinstein: I don't think that Duke has had ANY scandal that compares to some of that stuff. Matt Jones: Well like Corey Maggette stuff... John Feinstein: Well, like I said, that doesn't compare. Duke wasn't even put on N.C.A.A. probation for that. . . You can argue that they should have. Matt Jones: You CAN argue that. John Feinstein: But they weren't. Matt Jones: OK, So the N.C.A.A. is sort of the final arbiter ... John Feinstein: I mean Duke hasn't been shut down for an entire season. Matt Jones: Do you, but I mean you, you are smart enough to follow college basketball to know that the things Kentucky was doing, they weren't the only school to be doing . . John Feinstein: NEVER were they the only school to do that. Matt Jones: But I've sensed a dislike of Kentucky by you, more than others. John Feinstein: Here's ... let me say this. Let me put it to you this way. And this isn't going to make Kentucky fans happy, but I'm going to say it anyway because it's what I believe. I think there are places, Kentucky is ONE of them, where sports is too important. In this case it's basketball. I think football is too important in the entire ... ,college football, is too important in the entire Southeast. Matt Jones: Would you say it's too important at Duke? John Feinstein: Ah, at times yes. I think that ... I don't know why this always comes back to Duke? Matt Jones: Because you went to Duke. John Feinstein: Yeah, I did go to Duke. But nobody's been a bigger admirer of the program at the University of North Carolina through the years than me, and that's why ... Matt Jones: Are you an admirer now? John Feinstein: And that's why what's going on right now is so disappointing to me because of how I feel about Dean Smith, then also how I feel about Roy Williams... Matt Jones: But Kentucky fans see you... John Feinstein: See, here's the thing. Let me say this Matt. Kentucky fans can see me anyway they want. But the answer always is: 'Oh, well isn't everyone else guilty?' Matt Jones: Yes! John Feinstein: But that ... that's only part of the point. That's like Richard Nixon saying: 'Other people broke the law in politics' when he resigned. If you cheated, you cheated ... (03:03) Matt Jones: But John when you focus ... here's the thing people say: 'All-right look, college sports are not a clean profession anywhere.' John Feinstein: Totally Matt Jones: When you sort of look across the board and you say: 'College sports are not a clean profession. All of these people get in trouble, but you know the one that stands out to me is the one that epitomizes what's bad? It's Kentucky and the Southeastern Conference. ' And YOU, not being from the South, you having gone to Duke, people are going to look at that and say.. . John Feinstein: Which is in the South Matt Jones: But it's not in mentality. I went to Duke as well, by the way, for law school. People look at that and go: 'Well why are you picking us out?' Why is it your rage about ... John Feinstein: I don't have any rage. I never get enraged in sports. Matt Jones: Leave rage aside, why is your ... whatever you want to call it? Dislike. John Feinstein: OK, distaste? Matt Jones: Distaste. OK, distaste. Better word. At this school, why is ... where is the distaste of these other things that have happened ALL over the country? John Feinstein: Oh, but Matt, Matt, you've got to give me credit. I mean, I've been critical of all sorts of all sorts of college programs. Not just ... I mean in Kentucky I understand why you focus on Kentucky. But you know I've been critical of things that have been going on at Duke, at North Carolina, at N.C. State, at Maryland, which I've covered for years. (04:10) Matt Jones: What's your criticism of Duke? John Feinstein: My criticism of Duke is: A. I thought they were stealing money with their football program for many years. That they were not giving their athletes a fair chance to compete, because they were in a league where they ... Matt Jones: What about Mike Krzyzewski, any criticism of him? John Feinstein: Yes I've been critical of Mike at times, for ... not treating the media well, in particular the student media back in 1990, I wrote a piece about that. Matt Jones: What about the fact that people who go to that school ... John Feinstein: Let me ask a question ... Matt Jones: Wait a minute, John ... John Feinstein: What do you think of Mike Krzyzewski? Matt Jones: Here's what I think. I think he's a great coach. I think he seems like a decent guy. I think he's a bully. I mean having gone to games and watched him over the years ... John Feinstein: He bullied referees? Matt Jones: He bullied everyone. Including my girlfriend at the time when they got in a car crash and he screamed at her. But leave that aside ... John Feinstein: Was it his fault or hers? Matt Jones: I didn't see the crash so I don't know... John Feinstein: (laughs) Matt Jones: But more of a bully in terms of, he sort of uses his authority to kind of berate people into submission. But with that said, a lot of coaches do it. (05:02) John Feinstein: I was referring to with the student newspaper. Matt Jones: But here's what I don't. . . I go to Duke, you were at Duke. All those kids go to school there, their parents end up with great jobs in the city. I think the things that happen in Durham are the same things that happen everywhere else, yet somehow he is so ... it's considered more pristine because Duke is considered a 'good' school. And so we look aside that Sheldon Williams and all these people's parents end up working, they end up moving from Alaska, in Carlos Boozer's case and end up with ... John Feinstein: No, that was Trajan Langdon Matt Jones: Trajan Langdon, $150,000 jobs for their parents. You all never bring that up, and I don't understand that. That happens everywhere, but at Duke we look past it... John Feinstein: Does that happen everywhere? Matt Jones: Well it happens at Duke! John Feinstein: Well, it happened a couple of times as far as I know. Matt Jones: So where's your criticism of that? John Feinstein: I've said over the years that, I brought that up. I brought it up to Mike. You know. And see, the point here ... and what bothers me is you've got a tweet today, from somebody saying that I had said: 'You can tell the Kentucky fans, because they're loud and out of place?' Matt Jones: They said you were talking about us. That we were loud and ... But clearly you said you didn't do it, and I said on the radio: 'if he said he didn't do it, then he didn't do it.' John Feinstein: I said that about you guys !? I didn't even know you guys were here, until it was pointed out to me. Matt Jones: All-right listen, and that was clearly incorrect. John Feinstein: OK Matt Jones: But your sort of history of writing, would have suggested to me that: 'He could have easily said that.' John Feinstein: I literally didn't know who you guys were. Matt Jones: Do you like John Calipari? John Feinstein: I like him personally very much. I've known John since he was an assistant at Kansas. We first met at the Five Star Camp in 1984. He actually, when he was at UMASS, and they were ranked #1, brought his team to a charity basketball event in Washington, that I was involved in the startup of. I got John to come and play. I think he did it partly as a favor to me, and because it was for charity. So I've always been grateful to him for that. And I have often said, that John simply uses the one-and-done rule better than anybody. That it's unfair to criticize him for the one-and-dones, and BECAUSE, because . . . (07:04) Matt Jones: I have heard you though on the one and done. . . John Feinstein: Let me finish. Matt Jones: I've heard you mock that those kids go to class. I've heard you mock that. John Feinstein: What I have said is: 'Don't call them student-athletes' Matt Jones: Why would you say that? John Feinstein: Because, they're not going to graduate and ... Matt Jones: Brandon Knight graduates John Feinstein: Number one, OK...OK Matt Jones: Wait a minute. You say things and then move aside. Brandon Knight has graduated. John Feinstein: What percentage of the kids recruited as one-and-dones, ANYWHERE, including Duke, are going to graduate? Matt Jones: I will make you a bet. If we sat down here in ten years and look at the one-and-done player that Kentucky had. I'll make you a bet, 30% graduate. John Feinstein: Well OK, so you think 30% is ... See here's the thing that people miss. Because you didn't let me finish what I was saying is. That John has done a better job of using the one-and-done rule, than any coach in the country. And that because there's been so much talk about one-and-dones, he's underrated as a coach. What I have then gone on to say ... (08:00) What I said to him when John Wall was given the Rookie of the Year award by the US Basketball Writers Association, in 2010, and I was sitting next to him on the dais. And he went up and talked about John Wall and what a great student he was, and how he was going to graduate. And I was: 'Why wouldn't he just talk about what a hell of a basketball player he was?' Matt Jones: But maybe he can do both? John Feinstein: But he didn't win an award for being a student, he won the award for being a basketball player... Matt Jones: John, but John seriously... John Feinstein: Hang on... Matt Jones: John, when Christian Laettner wins the award they talk of him as a student too. John Feinstein: Well Christian Laettner did graduate and he did stay four years. Matt Jones: And John Wall will graduate. John Feinstein: Well, we'll see. Matt Jones: I will take any amount of money that he does. John Feinstein: I'll bet you dinner. How about that? Matt Jones: That's fine. John Feinstein: Just for the heck of it. But the point I'm making. And I make this ... if you ever listen to my radio show. I talk constantly about the hypocrisy EVERYWHERE, starting with Mark Emmert on down, of referring to players, PLAYERS, and there's nothing wrong with me calling them players, as a student-athlete. Matt Jones: Oh I agree with that ... John Feinstein: Also, and you went to law school so you know this, it's REDUNDANT. Matt Jones: You and I are on the same page, John. John Feinstein: And.... Matt Jones: Wait a minute, you and I are on the same page. (09:00) John Feinstein: OK, so I don't just talk about Kentucky in that context, but Kentucky has more one-and-dones than anybody. Matt Jones: It's interesting ... that's what I was going to get at. You and I are on the same page regarding the student-athlete, BUT when I hear you, and I hear you a lot on Tony Kornheiser show... John Feinstein: I haven't been on Tony's show for three years. Matt Jones: You used to be on it a lot. It was during the Anthony Davis, all that stuff, the DeMarcus Cousins-John Wall era, I would hear you.... John Feinstein: And I love Anthony Davis Matt Jones: The mocking is always situated at Kentucky. This notion of student-athletes, you mock at Kentucky. Even though Duke has one-and-dones, I notice when you criticize Mike Krzyzewski, I asked what you criticism was, and it was about how he treated reporters, as if anyone cares about how they're treated. John Feinstein: Well you said he was a bully. He was being a bully. Matt Jones: Or B. But you never brought up the one-and-done. He brought up three one-and-dones ... John Feinstein: No, I talked about one-and-dones with Krzyzewski ALL the time, ALL the time. Matt Jones: I've never heard it. John Feinstein: Constantly. In fact I just said yesterday, when they signed, what the kids name?, Jeter ... or signed, got a commitment from. I said: 'That's going to be another one-and-done.' Matt Jones: So do you think Duke should not recruit these guys? (10:00) John Feinstein: No, everybody has to take them. Matt Jones: So even an academic school like Duke... John Feinstein: Everybody has to take them...and Krzyzewski... But let me go finish the thought about one-and-dones, because this is important to me and you know I got to run here. Matt Jones: I know. John Feinstein: But, the thing I have said, one million times. When I was at Duke, if the Washington Post had come to me after my freshman year, and said: 'We think you are the next great writer. And we're going to offer you a job TODAY, for $100,000 ...' Matt Jones: You would have taken it. John Feinstein: In a MINUTE! Matt Jones: OK, before... I know you need to go. UK fans. UK fans have a belief... I certainly have a belief that you over the years have been not just critical, mocking of us. Not just... what has always bothered me about you is not criticizing, because we do a lot of silly things... John Feinstein: All fan bases. Matt Jones: But you MOCK Kentucky fans. John Feinstein: Uh-huh, among others. Matt Jones: But a lot of Kentucky, you mock. John Feinstein: I mock a lot of people. Matt Jones: I understand. But you mock in a very elitist tone. John Feinstein: I don't think that's fair to say, elitist. I mean a lot of... Matt Jones: When you say... John Feinstein: Come on, the Kentucky fans travel. They're not rich? (11:00) Matt Jones: John, when you say: 'It's too important to us'. That is an elitist notion. John Feinstein: No, no, that is not an elitist notion. Matt Jones: It's not? John Feinstein: No, because I think sports in general is too important. Matt Jones: So what should be important to us? John Feinstein: Just watch the games, enjoy the games. Be happy when your team wins. Matt Jones: But what is important to you? John Feinstein: What's most important? My kids! Matt Jones: And don't you think to Kentucky fans, their kids are the most important thing? John Feinstein: I hope so. Matt Jones: So when you say: 'It's too important' John John Feinstein: I say it's too important... Matt Jones: As opposed to what? What should be important to us? John Feinstein: What? ... GAZA! Matt Jones: So you think Kentucky fans should not care about basketball, but should care about Gaza? John Feinstein: No, no, no. I didn't say that. YOU said ... I said ... you said I mocked Kentucky fans for caring TOO much. I think there are many fans in all sports... Matt Jones: But why is it Kentucky that you focus on? John Feinstein: Because Kentucky comes up. Because they're on television all the time, because they're good, because they have the history that they do. You can't sit here Matt, and tell me that their history is PERFECT. It's not! Matt Jones: Nobody's is. (11:59) John Feinstein: Nobody's is but it's a matter of degree... Matt Jones: In 1966, and I know you've got to go. In 1966 the famous game, Rupp's Runts. All-white Kentucky. All-black Texas Western team. In the semi-finals, who did Kentucky beat? John Feinstein: They beat an all-white Duke team. Matt Jones: And if Duke won that game? John Feinstein: Then probably Vic Bubas would have gotten the label that Rupp got... Matt Jones: So when I hear you criticize Rupp, why not for Vic Bubas too? Your alma mater. John Feinstein: OK, because, number one there were two black freshmen at Duke that year, and were not eligible to play. Matt Jones: Black players started at Kentucky the next year... John Feinstein: Who were not eligible to play, OK, and Rupp has a history. You know I know Kentucky people argue this but Rupp had a history of saying he didn't want black players. Matt Jones: And neither did Duke. Duke had no black players. John Feinstein: Duke did have black players... Matt, racism existed throughout the South! Matt Jones: But the one that matters to you. You focus on Rupp because he won. But your school was the same. And you never bring that up. John Feinstein: It wasn't the same and I do bring it up. I have said on more than one occasion that Duke was lucky to lose that night. Matt Jones: OK. John Feinstein: Because if Duke had not lost that night, you're right... Matt Jones: So was Duke a racist institution? (13:00) John Feinstein: Of course it was. Matt Jones: Was Duke basketball program racist? John Feinstein: Of course it was. Matt Jones: So the next time .... ... both talking at same time... John Feinstein: ...until Dean Smith got there, so was North Carolina. Matt Jones: Let me finish this. So the next time you talk about. I want you to do me a favor. The next time Rupp comes up, it will come up at some point, you're a college basketball historian, and you talk about the 'racist Rupp'. Will you do me a favor and say, racist UK Rupp AND Duke? John Feinstein: No, I will say and the rest of the South. How about that? Matt Jones: So you won't say Duke? John Feinstein: Of course I'll say Duke, because Duke is included in that. Rupp is the symbol. Everybody gets to be a symbol for good and for bad. Matt Jones: Because he was good? John Feinstein: Partly, yes, absolutely. Matt Jones: That's why. He was a symbol. John Feinstein: Absolutely. ... If you're not good, you don't matter. Matt Jones: Let me say this... John Feinstein: I mean Wake Forest was probably as racist too, but they didn't matter. Matt Jones: I appreciate you for taking the time to do this. Most people would not. Especially considering the fact that you've got a million tweets. So I appreciate you taking the time. Last thing before you go. If I say Kentucky basketball to you. And I say: 'John Feinstein tell me what Kentucky basketball means to you.' What's your answer? (14:00) John Feinstein: Right now? Matt Jones: Just in general. I just say Kentucky basketball, John Feinstein tell me about Kentucky basketball. What are you going to do? John Feinstein: Second most important program in history, behind UCLA, because of the championships and because of Wooden. Many, many good things. Many bad things. Great coach right now. We'll see what happens next. |
Transcribed by - August 9, 2014
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